028: Dr. William Davis: UNDOCTORED: How to Become Smarter Than Your Doctor

Dr. William Davis, the author of Undoctored

Dr. William Davis, the author of Undoctored

Americans face daily struggles with ballooning costs, unsatisfactory outcomes, and over-whelming frustration with the U.S. healthcare system which aims to address illness but rarely accomplishes real health.

Instead, we have a healthcare system that promotes a vicious cycle of illness followed by unnecessary medical procedures, expensive and counterproductive drugs, and disastrous health outcomes.


Dr. William Davis, MD, respected cardiologist and mega-bestselling author of Wheat Belly: Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight, and Find Your Path Back to Health has declared ENOUGH! Dr. Davis exposes the untruths of a health care system and gives patients the tools to take their health into their own hands.

In UNDOCTORED Dr. Davis exposes how conflicted our health care industry really is. 




Grab his latest book 



  • Dr. Davis’ journey as a cardiologist and how he was able to heal himself and his patients through a simple diet shift.
  • Grains cause nutritional deficiencies
  • The current state of healthcare and the corruption within.
  • The money behind Big Pharmaceutical companies is influencing healthcare.
  • "The numbers racket”, How certain companies are able to distort data and mislead the public in a certain way with lies and how that is affecting the public health
  • Certain guidelines by governmental association like the AHA, ADA, AND, and USDA that are based on lies
  • The outdated paternalistic doctor-patient relationship must change into a better interpersonal relationship where patients are able to have a conversation about their health with their doctors.
  • The importance of Omega 3 Fatty acids
  • The importance of the Omega 3: Omega 6 ratio (Get your test here)
  • Eating Wild, Naked, and Unwashed.
  • The difference between Undoctored Diet and Paleo Diet
  • Dr. Davis’ vision of a medical utopia
  • How to drive down the cost of healthcare?
  • Undoctored as a patient-centered resource
  • The importance of having the right doctors on your team





Podcast Transcript

Dr. Jon: All right, welcome folks. Today, on The Wellness Café, we have a special guest. We have Dr. William Davis on the show today. Welcome, Doctor. 

Dr. Davis: Thank you. Glad to be here.

Dr. Jon: How you doing today?

Dr. Davis: I'm wonderful.

Dr. Jon: Awesome. For those who don't know you, can you tell us a bit about your journey, and who you are?

Dr. Davis: Sure. I used to practice [00:00:30] cardiology. I started in interventional cardiology, that is procedural cardiology, doing stents, and catheterizations, and so on. Turned my attention to prevention and reversal of coronary disease. That took me down some very unexpected paths, where I started to reject the conventional notions of doing procedures for heart health, and instead, trying to really just stop the disease altogether. 

It led me down some very unusual dietary and nutritional paths, as well as some [00:01:00] attention to supplements. What I noticed when I started to regress coronary disease, heart disease, was that so many other things happened. People had their rheumatoid arthritis reversing. I saw people lose astounding quantities of weight. I saw their acid reflux, plantar fasciitis, irritable bowel syndrome, migraine headaches, eczema, psoriasis, seborrhea, reverse. It became clearer and clearer to me, what I had stumbled on was a program for health. 

This was a lot of the basis, by the way, for the Wheat Belly series of books [00:01:30] I wrote, that started with the premise that wheat was corrupted by agribusiness, and that you can achieve astounding improvements in health by elimination of all modern wheat. I took it further by expanding the conversation to elimination of all grains, and saw even more improvements. 

Then, I paid more and more attention to the nutritional deficiencies that were caused by grains. It's often thought, advocated by conventional experts, that grains actually supply nutrients. Actually, the opposite is true. Grains [00:02:00] cause numerous nutritional deficiencies. When you eliminate grains, you have to make a specific effort to correct those deficiencies. Couple that with attention to some other common deficiencies, and what you have, the entire package of just a handful of strategies, is an astounding means of turning around numerous, literally hundreds of health conditions. 

That's what I've repackaged as Undoctored. The reason I called it Undoctored, by the way, was people were doing at the time, the Wheat Belly program and said, "Well, you know what? I did this. [00:02:30] My doctor said it was stupid. It was harmful. It would make me end up with obesity, and reliance on drugs. The opposite happened. I don't have diabetes anymore. I don't have Crohn's Disease anymore. My skin rashes went away. I lost 47 pounds. I look better. I feel better than I have in 20 years. And I got well, despite my doctor." 

I'm talking about conventional doctors, like my colleagues. The primary care doctors, the cardiologists, the gastroenterol ... et cetera. What I saw was [00:03:00] we had, in our hands, the means to help people become healthy without their doctors, and getting healthier than the doctor could have ever achieved, ever hoped to achieve, even using the tools he had available, which is drugs and procedures. 

Dr. Jon: Yeah, definitely. I totally agree with you on that one, because the best doctor is the body. If you feed it what it needs and remove all the toxins, and let the body heal itself, you can be healthier than ever before. 

Dr. Davis: [00:03:30] Yes. Absolutely. 

Dr. Jon: The book goes into the details in saying that the healthcare system is broken, which hopefully we all know here that it's not working very well. We're spending more every year, but we're getting sicker and sicker. I mean, which you elaborate in the book really well, and I can't. I'm not going to be able to do as good a job as you are, so can you tell us, what about this current [00:04:00] healthcare system that everyone should know?

Dr. Davis: You know, as you say, healthcare costs have gone out of control. We have $84,000 for a single vial of 120 tablets to treat hepatitis C. We have incredible five, six figure price tags for medical procedures. These are unsustainable. 

As you know, American healthcare consumes 17.5% of GDP. [00:04:30] What we don't often hear is that healthcare insiders, that is, people who are in the drug industry, medical device industry, the hospital industry, want that number to grow to 19%. Or 21%. It's a huge wealth transfer from our pockets into the pockets of the healthcare insider. 

I don't mean the nurse. Or the orderly. Or the guy working in the lab. I'm talking about the people who are in charge of the purse strings. The CEOs, the executives, the administrative [00:05:00] people, the multi-national drug and medical device industries. These people want their piece of the healthcare pie to grow even larger. So, what they grow, what they advocate is increasing reliance of the public on drugs and procedures. We have my colleagues, the conventional medical doctors, who are the unwitting slaves to that process.

The TV commercial, direct-consumer drug advertising, the advertising we see in magazines and TV [00:05:30] and billboards for implantable defibrillators. And electro-physiologic studies. And cancer programs, and MRIs. Those are all meant to grow the medical franchise. The bottom line of the healthcare industry. 

Lost in the conversation, as you know, is health. So, I say, the enemy of the healthcare system is not sickness. The enemy of the healthcare system is healthy people. Because if you're healthy, you are worthless [00:06:00] to the healthcare industry, 'cause what they've tried to do is monetize health. They've tried to tell you that cholesterol needs to be treated, even though you feel fine. That you need to submit to an endo colonoscopy. That you need to submit to drugs and procedures in order to be healthy. But, health should be free, or nearly free. It should be something accessible to everybody at no cost. Now, if you break your leg, or you're in a car accident, that's not free, of course. The health care you get shouldn't be free. But health, [00:06:30] itself, should be free. 

Just like freedom of speech. If I said, "Dr. Jon, in order for you to maintain your freedom of speech, the US government is gonna charge you $10,000 a year." You'd be outraged. 

Dr. Jon: Yes, definitely.

Dr. Davis: But that's what they've done with health. They've managed to monetize health, and I think that's wrong. 

Dr. Jon: Yeah. I completely agree with you on that one. Essentially, they're making more money, and they, [00:07:00] meaning pharmaceutical companies, are making more money by keeping people sick. I guess the way to maximize profit is to keep you alive, but sick enough that you have to consume those drugs on a regular basis. 

It's sickening to see, from a practitioner perspective, as well, where you have these idea that have been pitched to consumers that drugs, as prevention, preventative drugs, [00:07:30] meaning, like, take statins. "Everything's fine, but hey, you're approaching 50s or 60. Why don't you just take statin to prevent heart disease?" Which is ridiculous to me. 

Dr. Davis: It is. If we focus on the ... All these concepts I talk about came from my efforts to stop heart disease. It came from an effort. About 20 some years ago, I helped set up a heart scan device in Milwaukee, where I live. We started scanning people [00:08:00] for coronary disease. Coronary calcium, as an index of coronary disease. What I saw was just everyday people coming in with horrendous quantities of hidden heart disease, coronary disease. When we put them on conventional therapies, like statin drugs, and a low-fat diet, their heart disease progressed rapidly. 25-30% rate. We helped publish those data. We saw heart disease gallop forward at a rate of 25-30% growth in this measure [00:08:30] of heart disease every year. Even if you threw all these tools at them.

So, I set about trying to find better tools. It took many years to do this, but it led me down the path of vitamin D, and elimination of wheat, and grains, and sugars because those are the only foods that cause the number one cause for heart disease, which is an excess of small, oxidation-prone LDL particles. And some other tools. 

That's when I stumbled on all the other health benefits that occurred. It turned [00:09:00] out to be almost free. I mean, you might have to spend a few dollars for fish oil, or vitamin D, but compared to the thousand dollars a month for healthcare insurance premium, the hundred and fifty thousand dollars it often costs for heart bypass procedure, the many hundreds of thousands it costs for cancer procedures and drugs and chemotherapy, or the tens of thousands it can cost just for the handful of drugs you take every day for type-2 diabetes. 

The costs you and I talk about are minuscule, almost nothing. Yet, you get [00:09:30] far superior health. You and I know, compared to the health you get from a conventional-thinking doctor, like a guy that provides statin drugs, blood pressure medicines, acid reflux drugs, and anti-depressants, that kind of health compared to the health you can achieve on your own with some benign guidance, the health we achieve on our own is far superior. You'll look better, you'll be thinner. You'll have better measures of health, like cholesterol, blood sugar and blood pressure, than the doctor can ever hope to achieve. 

Dr. Jon: Absolutely. I [00:10:00] just want to bring you back to that subject, since we're on the medications like the statins, drugs. I want to talk about the efficacy, which you talked about in the book, called "The Numbers Racket." Can you explain how pharmaceutical companies are able to mislead the public by presenting the data in a certain way?

Dr. Davis: Yeah. A big, big issue, as you know. One of the ways they deceive the public is they fund the studies. So, [00:10:30] if a company funded the ... I don't mean to pick on Ford or Chrysler or any other car manufacturer, but if you went to a car dealer, and it's a Ford dealer. The salesman says, "Sir, Ford makes the best car in America, and we have the studies to prove it." 

You say, "Well, who funded that study?"

They say, "Ford."

You would say, "Well, okay. Don't even tell me, because I know it's just marketing."

Well, you know that, but the doctors don't know that. So, we have the vast majority of drug [00:11:00] data, such as the statin drug data. The $2 billion plus spent on validating the prescription of statin drugs for cholesterol. Virtually all of it paid for by the statin drug manufacturers. Most of the experts that develop clinical treatment guidelines for cholesterol are paid by the drug industry. They are major shareholders, or they have large consulting agreements. They're somehow affiliated intimately, and [00:11:30] with longstanding ties, to the drug industry. And they're the ones drafting practice guidelines. So, that alone. 

We know that the bulk of clinical research that are reported to validate these drugs, including statin drugs, are nothing more than marketing. Very clever marketing, of course, compounded by those good-looking, sexy sales representatives that come to the middle-aged doctor's office, hawking free dinners, and free trips to Orlando with all expenses paid. 

We also have this added layer of deception [00:12:00] where the data, themselves, have been fabricated, and/or manipulated, or hidden. The vast majority of negative-outcome studies are never published. Many of the positive outcomes are published, but the negative part's taken out. We also have manipulation of the data themselves. A very common trick in statin drugs, and other drugs, is to publish what's called "relative risk." It's a means of inflating the reported benefits of [00:12:30] drugs, many fold. 

So, the benefits of the statin drugs, you know, there may be a small benefit to statin drugs, like maybe a 1% reduction in heart attack. If you reread even the data paid for by the drug industry, you'll see that there's about a 1, maybe 3% reduction in heart attack risk. Yet, if you talk to the doctor, my prescribing colleagues, or if you read the ads, you'll see claims like 36% reduction in heart attack. 50% [00:13:00] reduction in heart attack. How'd they go from 1-3% reduction to 36-55% reduction? They manipulated the numbers and gave you this artificially ... Imagine you went to your stockbroker, and he said, "Dr. Jon, I can increase your money by 50% this year." 

You'd say, "Wow."

Dr. Jon: Sign me up.

Dr. Davis: Right. But, then you find out it was really only 2%, or something like that. You'd be furious, because that would [00:13:30] be fraud. Yet, that is what the drug industry does every day. They inflate their values to, not just 10% higher or 100% higher. We're talking about 3,000% or more, inflated benefits of their drugs. Yet, that's how the data are often reported for cholesterol drugs, blood pressure drugs, anti-depressants. It doesn't mean that there are no benefits to any drug. It means that there might be [00:14:00] some benefits, but it's hard to know if the data was manipulated, some concealed, and the statistics fiddled with. We often just don't know. 

The problem here, of course, is my colleagues know nothing about this, and often just prescribe their drugs willy-nilly, because they were educated by the sales representatives, and inflated statistics used in drug studies. So, what you and I are after, what your audience is after, is just truth. Much of the truth means the drug industry [00:14:30] is corrupt. The doctors who unknowingly, unwittingly prescribe it are also corrupt, and yet all you and I want is health. We have to turn to places other than the doctor, other than the healthcare system for our answers. 

Dr. Jon: Wow, that's definitely powerful. Since we're talking about big institutions, I just want to maybe veer to the right and ask you, how about the government? How about the datas from the American Heart Association? How about the data [00:15:00] from American Diabetes Association, or the USDA in that manner? Are those reliable?

Dr. Davis: As you know, we've had this odd situation where the American Heart Association for many years, advertised Crisco as heart-healthy. They got paid a lot of money by the manufacturer of Crisco. Crisco, of course, is hydrogenated fat, which is not a healthy replacement for fat. In fact, it causes heart disease more than any other form of fat, yet, [00:15:30] that was the darling of the American Heart Association for many years. 

That kind of misinformation has continued even to this day, where we have agencies like the American Heart Association, or the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. Or the American Diabetes Association telling us that reducing total fat, and saturated fat, eating plenty of healthy whole grains, and consuming the products they endorse. Whether it's Berry [00:16:00] Kix, or Cocoa Puffs, or healthy whole grains, they call them heart-healthy, or an important component of a diabetic diet.

We all know that's absolute nonsense. The origin of that is because those agencies get paid to say that. Just as we saw the Harvard researchers got paid to distort the truth about sugar and fat, saying fat was bad, and sugar was okay, when in fact the opposite is true. Fat is fine, [00:16:30] sugar is very harmful. They got paid to say that. 

The same kind of thing happens here with these agencies. They're paid to say those kinds of things. Why would the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics, that is the certifying agency for the nation's dieticians, why would they say that Coca-Cola in moderation is fine? Because they are associated financially with Coca Cola. So, we have this situation where it's not truth that matters. It's who pays the most. 

That's [00:17:00] the mantra that drives American healthcare, and I think you and I, and your listeners find this absolutely unacceptable. Because, we can bash them all we like, but they are richer and more powerful than we are. This is why what we are doing here is so important. That people, so, I'm not paying you, you're not paying me. Kraft, Nabisco, General Mills don't pay me a penny. Pfizer, Merck and Astra Zeneca don't pay me a penny. Nor does Medtronic, or other device manufacturers. We say these things because we think it counts, and it matters to people just to be healthy.

Dr. Jon: [00:17:30] Yeah, definitely. That's what I love so much about your book, is you're empowering people. You're empowering the public with information, with resources, so that when they go to the doctors, they can actually be able to have a conversation, which is the next thing that I want to talk about. Basically, the doctor-patient relationship has got to change. The public [00:18:00] has to really be able to equip themselves with some knowledge and some information to be able to have a conversation regarding health with their doctors. 

Dr. Davis: Absolutely. As you know, the eternalistic, "I'm the doctor, you're the patient. Shut up and just take this prescription, or do what I say." That was true when the public was ignorant, didn't know anything about health. But, it's not true anymore. As you know, the informational playing field has been leveled. The [00:18:30] information that's open to the average person is the same information that's available to you and me. Now, we may have a broader appreciation of some of the issues, but the public is getting increasingly savvy about health issues. This idea that my colleagues just tell you to shut up and just submit to that implantable defibrillator, or the exploratory laparotomy, those days are over. 

You know, the origin of the word patient comes from the Latin word, patior, which means to suffer. As a patient, [00:19:00] in a doctor-patient relationship, your job is to suffer, and to submit, unquestioningly, to the orders of the doctor. This is like saying, "If you don't follow my beliefs, I'm going to burn you at the stake." This is ridiculous. This is an age of information. Sharing information. Of crowdsourcing. Of collaboration being facilitated by online tools. The doctor should become your advocate for health. 

[00:19:30] Just like you're trying to do. You're trying to help people be healthy. You're not trying to use them to squeeze them for revenues, and to grow the bottom line of the healthcare industry.  As I often say, the enemy of health care, the healthcare industry, is healthy people. You can do, all your listeners can do all their part in battling this awful monstrosity we've created, called healthcare, by being healthy. Your doctor won't know what to do. When you look, feel, [00:20:00] and measure better than anything he's ever seen before, and there's really no need for medications. He has no idea what to do, and he says, "Well, Mary, just do what you're doing. I don't understand it, and I think it's stupid, and I don't profit from you, so you can go now."

Dr. Jon: That's funny. It's sad, but true. 

You mentioned in the book, we must have a healthy balance between [00:20:30] omega-6 and 3. What happens if that number goes out of whack? What can a person do to regain that balance?

Dr. Davis: Sure. As you know, there's a distinct deficiency syndrome when you don't have enough omega-3s. Omega-3s have to come from fish oil, as you know. It's the only source you can get. Flax seed, chia, walnuts, that source, linolenic acid are just not reliable sources. Likewise, krill has so [00:21:00] little EPA and DHA that it's, you'd literally have to take the entire bottle to get a sufficient quantity of EPA and DHA. So, we're left with fish oil or, this makes some people mad, the consumption of the brains of animals. 

Most of us in the modern world don't want to eat brains. You could, but no one likes that anymore. So, you're stuck with fish oil, or of course, consuming fish But, even fish has become a bit of a problem, because as you know, fish like tuna is rich in mercury [00:21:30] and other heavy metals. So, we're left with the safest work-around solution. That is taking fish oil. So, we amp that up. The average person starts with an RBC Omega-3 Index. That's of course, how you measure the quantity of omega-3s in your body. You measure the quantity of the cell membrane of the red blood cells. Most average Americans start at 2.5%, a level that is marginally deficient, and associates with increased cardiovascular risk, increased risk for dementia, and other health problems. 

[00:22:00] The average person can increase it by eating some fish, which increases it to about 4%, 4.5%. But, if you take an adequate dose of fish oil, which I would advocate 3,600 milligrams of EPA and DHA per day from fish oil. You can get to 10% or greater, and that's where risk, not only for sudden cardiac death falls off, but risk for heart attack and dementia also drop off dramatically. But, that has to come from fish oil. Can't come from chia, walnuts, flax seed, or from krill. So, [00:22:30] we're left with fish oil. 

Now, as you know, most Americans start with a deficiency of omega-3 and an excess of omega-6, 'cause omega-6. Linoleic acid comes from cheap, processed oils, like cottonseed, and soybean, and corn oil, in particular. It's not clear if omega-6 is intrinsically harmful, or whether it's just a market for lack of omega-3. I think the data would suggest that there probably are some harmful effects of extreme intakes of linoleic acid, [00:23:00] omega-6. 

So, eliminate those cheap oils. We get rid of corn oil, and mixed vegetable oils, and other processed oils, and we go back to, of all things, saturated fat. We use coconut oil, palm oil, and cocoa butter. We eat the fat on our meats. We buy fatty cuts. We never buy lean cuts. We use more organic butter and olive oil. We use real. 

Wonderful things happen, including [00:23:30] a rise in your omega-3 you're somewhat deficient, and a drop in the omega-6. It helps you approximate better what wild living humans look like in their fatty acid composition. That is, the people who are free of all the modern diseases of civilization.

Dr. Jon: What's a good optimal range, as far as the ratio goes? 

Dr. Davis: Probably no higher than two to one, omega-6 to omega-3. It's not entirely clear, though. The omega-6 [00:24:00] marker is a less robust marker than the omega-3 level, so the most important level is how much omega-3 you're getting. People an actually measure these numbers, as you know. The most important number is to measure the RBC Omega-3 Index, and try to achieve 10% or greater. 

I will tell you, if you just take a minimum of 3,000, and ideally, 3,600 milligrams of EPA and DHA from fish oil per day, almost [00:24:30] everybody achieves 10% or greater, and you don't really have to get the test measured. 

Dr. Jon: Awesome. You just mentioned saturated fat and fatty meat. I want to go into the diet part of your book, where you recommend eating wild, naked and unwashed. What do those mean? What does it mean to eat like that? 

Dr. Davis: It's my crazy way of saying go back to real foods. [00:25:00] Don't eat the foods that are cellophane wrapped, that have heart-healthy claims on them, or sports figures. Or have long lists of unpronounceable ingredients. We just want real foods. Foods that would be familiar to your grandmother. To your great-grandmother. To primitive people. If we showed a piece of baked meat, steak with fat on it, a primitive person would recognize that as food. If we showed them something like cellophane wrapped [00:25:30] green yogurt, or crackers with all kinds of artificial ingredients, they wouldn't recognize this as food. That's why a lot of animals and flies don't even go to those foods. 

We want to return to real foods that serve intrinsic human need. By the way, this applies also to nutritional supplements. I love supplements, but I don't like seeing people buy supplements that are nonsense. A lot of supplements are nonsense. The supplements that really count are the ones that address [00:26:00] intrinsic human need. Deficiencies, and needs that humans have developed over many, many thousands of generations, and adaptations of life. 

If we correct, for example, iron deficiency, wonderful things happen. If we correct vitamin D deficiency that we need, wonderful things happen. If you take ashwagandha, mostly nothing happens, because it's not addressing intrinsic human ... That's not to say there might be subtle benefits to some of [00:26:30] those kinds of nutritional supplements, but the supplements that really provide outsize, huge, life-changing benefits, are the ones that address intrinsic human need, developed through many thousands of generations of adaptation. 

Likewise, diet. We revert back to the foods that your body recognizes as real food. 

Dr. Jon: Right. Once again, the Wheat Belly book series that came out basically was integrated [00:27:00] or [fueled 00:27:01] the Paleo movement, and that was huge back in 2010, 2011. How is the Undoctored diet differ from the Paleo diet? Or is it the same thing? 

Dr. Davis: You know, I like to say I'm advocating a set of principles, not necessarily a diet. Because, as you know, humans can actually be quite healthy following a variety of different kinds of diets. This has been true all throughout human history. You can be quite healthy in New Guinea, [00:27:30] and healthy in the Himalayan mountains, as well as in the jungles of South America. There are many different faces of a healthy diet, but there are several commonalities. No primitive human culture ever consumed grains, the seeds of grasses, until recently. That's a given, and that's an overlap of the Paleo-type diet. 

A lot of people in the Paleo community are my friends, so I'm not picking on people in the Paleo community. But, the Paleo diet often ends at diet, [00:28:00] and I would ask, "Well, what about cultivation of bowel flora?" 

A primitive person, a Paleolithic person, and a modern person consuming the same diets will look very different. Physically and metabolically. That's because they are different. One of the big points of difference is their bowel flora is very different. One of the things that I try to advocate is, let's try to reapproximate a primitive bowel flora composition. So, I make specific efforts to try to address [00:28:30] bowel flora. 

Living a Paleo diet does not address vitamin D deficiency, because most of us don't want to run naked in the tropical sun, and we don't eat liver, and we lose the capacity to activate vitamin D with sun exposure in the skin as we age. So, you have to make a specific effort, and that's not part of the Paleo diet. 

There's also some difficulty to the Paleo diet when people think that foods like maple syrup and honey are consumed [00:29:00] on occasion by primitive people. But, if modern people do it, many of whom are insulin resistant, you can get diabetes, cataracts, hypertension, heart disease and dementia by an over-consumption, over-reliance on those kinds of sweeteners. 

There's great overlap. I applaud the people in the Paleo community for getting a lot of it right, but you can't end diet. There's too many other things to address, like bowel flora, vitamin D, and some other things. 

Dr. Jon: Definitely, and a big part of it is the quality of those products, as well. [00:29:30] While choosing organic and grass-fed, and grass-finished type products is gonna be definitely way better choices. 

Dr. Davis: Yeah. Really, the Paleo community is doing a lot of good in broadcasting the value of diet, but I think you and I know you that have to go beyond diet, if your goal is to be free of the healthcare system, and achieve ideal health. That's where we have to talk about [00:30:00] recognizing thyroid disfunction, for example. Endocrine disruption. There are issues beyond just the diet, if your goal is ideal health.

Dr. Jon: Definitely. Dr. Davis, what do you hope to see happen with Undoctored? 

Dr. Davis: This may sound a little bit overly ambitious, but I think about Kodak. I think about that company that was a huge success [00:30:30] story, listed on New York Stock Exchange for 70 years, 140,000 employees, $40 billion a year in revenues. We all had our Kodak Instamatic cameras, and took our film to the drugstore to have it developed, even though many of the pictures were worthless and terrible. We still had to pay our $18, or so. They developed digital photography internally, but kept it hidden, scrapped it, because they felt it would destroy their [00:31:00] conventional business. 

Your listeners know what happened next. Someone invented digital photography on the outside of Kodak, and they essentially went under. They're still around, but tiny, tiny, tiny remnant of their prior glory. I want to see something like that happen to healthcare. I want to see this predatory monstrosity called healthcare shrunk down to its essentials, which is a teensy-weensy piece of what it is now. I want to see the drug industry shrink. I want to see the medical device [00:31:30] industry shrink. I want to see the number of hospitals dramatically reduced. I want to see your healthcare insurance premiums drop from $1,200 a month, or whatever, to $200 a month, and make it more affordable. 

As people recognize the healthcare system is a predatory, profiteering system. It is not intended to deliver health, and I'm talking about conventional healthcare. I'm not talking about what you're trying to do, what I'm trying to do, but conventional healthcare. It's predatory, profiteering, and it does nothing [00:32:00] for you. You may need it, if you crack your car up, or bust your hip. But, you do not need it for the vast majority of health that you can achieve on your own with some benign guidance. 

Dr. Jon: Definitely. It's a $3 trillion industry per year. That's what we spend. If we even shrink that by, let's say, 33%, we have an extra trillion to really allocate that to improve all the other aspects [00:32:30] of the human species, nations, communities, and everything else. 

Dr. Davis: You know, it's eye-opening to realize that the amount of fraud and unnecessary spending in healthcare almost matches the US military budget. That's how big this monstrosity is. That just the mistakes almost match the US military budget. Just the mistakes. That's how big this thing is. 

If [00:33:00] we could get people to just follow a handful of simple strategies, and get them healthy, and off their medications, we would have accomplished something extraordinary. Perhaps, on a par with what happened to Kodak. 

Dr. Jon: What does your vision of medical utopia look like? 

Dr. Davis: Healthy people, Dr. Jon. Just people who go to their doctor, maybe once in a while, in case there's something that needs to be detected. The vast majority of people do not. People administer health [00:33:30] on their own. Kids are educated in schools about real health. That there are no more direct-to-consumer drug ads that influence and tell you you need these drugs to be healthy. I want people just to be healthy on their own. I want them to generate conversations of their own, sharing experiences. 

You know, you and I don't have all the answers, and maybe, in 20 years we'll laugh, and think of all the things we overlooked, and didn't know about. But, I think, what you and I have in our hands, is as close [00:34:00] to the tools for ideal health as humanly possible in this day and age. The health that I know that I see, every day, in these people, is vastly superior to the health achieved in the healthcare system. 

I've got people who've been to doctors umpteen times, get annual colonoscopies, endoscopies, you name it. All the surveillance testing, preventative care, yet they do these basic things. No wheat, no grains. Limit your sugars. [00:34:30] Vitamin D restoration, iodine, magnesium, fish oil. Those basic strategies. Cultivation of bowel flora. What happens is, women are in size four dresses in short order. They look 10-20 years younger, and I mean that literally, too. They're off their drugs. They feel better, more energy. They're more hopeful. They sleep better. They are far healthier than the doctor could ever have achieved, the conventional doctor could ever achieved. 

That's where I think you and I operate [00:35:00] at. Helping people be healthy without the predatory practices of conventional healthcare. 

Dr. Jon: Can you share with us some of your favorite resources, for people out there to go educate themselves, and learn more from a patient standpoint? 

Dr. Davis: You know, that's an evolving world. I don't want to just toot my own horn, but the Undoctored.com website, which is not launched yet. We'll launch maybe towards May, 2017, as the book comes out. [00:35:30] I hope that becomes a big resource. One of the tools, by the way, I've introduced and I regret not having introduced this earlier, is to acquire the data. 

One of the things you and I need is data that allows us to say things like, "Of the last 57,000 people who did this, they lost an average of 23.7 pounds in the first six months," or whatever. "They reduced their reliance on medication from an average of 6.7 medications per person down to 1.2," or [00:36:00] whatever. 

We need to collect that data, large population data of people doing this. So, I've got that project in place. We're gonna collect these data so that we can show to the US government, to healthcare insurers, self-insured corporations, et cetera, that we have the means to affect health on a broad scale in dramatic ways, so that we can effect change on a large scale. That'll be in my website, among other tools. 

[00:36:30] There are emerging tools, like patientslikeme.com, or CureTogether. These are websites that don't tell you how to be healthy, but they allow people to track their experiences in a variety of conditions. There are websites that advocate a specific piece of health, like Stop the Thyroid Madness, is one of my favorites that has wisdom about health by non-doctors. Started by just a woman who was frustrated by the kind of ridiculous advice [00:37:00] she was getting from conventional doctors on thyroid health. She had to do it herself. 

The landscape is changing rapidly. It's also being changed by the emergence of new tools. We have all these smartphone apps and devices that allow you and me to measure health. I'm shocked, Dr. Jon, how fast these tools are coming out. It seems a day doesn't go by where there's some new, wonderful tool. It's changing rapidly, but what it means is, here's an interesting thing. We now have access to tools, as consumers of health, [00:37:30] that the doctors often don't even have. 

The Withings Company, a UK company, for instance, has a device. It's a scale that measures something called pulse wave velocity, that is an index of cardiovascular health. If you went to John Q primary care, or John Q cardiologist and said, "Could you measure my pulse wave velocity?" He says, "Uh, we don't have that." But, you have it. I love that we have all these tools now coming out to the hands of the public that even the medical [00:38:00] industry doesn't have. 

Dr. Jon: That's fascinating. I really want to applaud you for that, and acknowledge you for being courageous and standing up for the public, and really dedicating time and resources to do what you do. To produce, to make change, to create that ripple effect that will really assist in the process of the awakening of the human species, really, [00:38:30] to true health. 'Cause we are born to be healthy. That's our birth rights. Then, we have been really sabotaged by the big foods, big farmers, and also basically, the monopoly of the pharmaceutical companies. 

Dr. Davis: I should make clear, also, 'cause I make some people mad, as you can imagine. There are champions in this effort to undoctor the world. Your field, the chiropractic community, has been [00:39:00] a real champion in this, as have the naturopaths, the functional medicine practitioners, the integrative health practitioners. I think we all agree. Let's talk about health, nutrition. Correct nutritional deficiencies, avoiding industrial toxins through such things as hand sanitizer and nonstick cookware, et cetera. Genetically modified foods. I think we all agree. 

There are bright spots in this world, [00:39:30] but it's likely not to come from your hospital. It's likely not to come from the American Heart Association, or the US Department of Health & Human Services. You can get a lot of these answers from the chiropractors, naturopaths, the integrative health and functional medicine practitioners, and occasionally, some of my immediate colleagues. The more enlightened ones. 

This is not to say that all practitioners are bad. That's not true. The enlightened, empowering practitioner can be very helpful in getting your free T-3 thyroid hormone measured. Or helping you [00:40:00] navigate through nutrition better. There are bright spots in this conversation, as well. 

Dr. Jon: Certainly. For patients out there, or people listening, sites like PatientsLikeMe really empower you, or at least, make you feel like you're not alone in this journey, 'cause there's a lot of people going through the same thing. 

Dr. Davis: Absolutely. Yes. 

Dr. Jon: Check those websites out, guys, and I will link everything that you said up into the show note page. For those listening, [00:40:30] go to thewellness.cafe and check out our show notes. 

So, let's move on to the last few questions, Doc. Where can people find you online? 

Dr. Davis: Right now, because a lot of the Undoctored conversations came from the Wheat Belly conversations, so I still maintain my Wheat Belly blog, the Wheat Belly Facebook page. But I'm going to also, we will launch, as we talked about, the Undoctored.com website, coming [00:41:00] in May, 2017. In that website and affiliated websites are numerous other sources of information. 

One of the things I want to do is certify health practitioners, so we have the growing ranks of healthcare practitioners who understand if someone came to them and said, "I don't want to have lap band surgery. I don't want to be unhealthy and have all these inflammatory diseases. I just want to be healthy, but I don't want to do it with drugs and procedures."

I want to have healthcare practitioners certified, so [00:41:30] one of the programs within Undoctored is Undoctored U, a certification program. We also have educational courses set up for just the public, who really just want to be smart. So that a mom, for instance, could do this for her family, her own mom and dad, friends. Or we could have, let's say, a healthcare advocate in a church, or in a corporate setting. They can become certified in Undoctored principles. 

So, the Undoctored.com website will be the portal, the centerpiece, of a growing collection [00:42:00] of strategies, and we'll have, of course, social media all set up by then. You and I are having this conversation early, before a lot of this stuff is started, but it will. This will be a very robust, and highly popular, and I think very instrumental and very helpful set of tools for people to refer to. 

Dr. Jon: So, Dr. Davis, the name of the show is called The Wellness Café. What's your definition of wellness? 

Dr. Davis: Wellness is feeling terrific, having no diseases, and being [00:42:30] freed of the predatory practices of this perverted thing we call healthcare. Just using common sense, natural means, like choosing foods wisely. Foods that suit your adaptation. Correcting nutritional deficiencies that develop in modern people, and minimizing your exposure to all the awful things we now have in a modern world that come from commercial sources. 

It sounds complicated. It's really not that complicated, as you know. It's actually quite simple, but you'll be rewarded. [00:43:00] People can save an enormous amount of money, and suffering, just by doing these things. You do it for your family, also. 

Dr. Jon: Dr. Davis, I appreciate you coming on today.

Dr. Davis: Thank you, Dr. Jon. Keep up the great work.